In The Footsteps Of Gandhi Conversations With Spiritual Social Activists – Catherine Ingram

These examples are one kind of interdependence. The other ways that our problems are connected is that the superpow- ers are building nuclear armaments. If anything happens, an accident, it’s not only they who are going to suffer, but everybody in the world. Then there are also the drugs which are dumped in our countries from the de- veloped countries—pesticides, experimental pharmaceuticals.

Whatever we are doing in whatever part of the world, we have to keep in mind this global perspective. In the Sarvodaya Movement, while we may be working in the most remote villages in Asia or Africa, we always try to keep a global vision. CI: Have you seen any decline or any improvement in the economic sta- tus of the poor in the last few years?

ATA: I think conditions for the poor are becoming worse. I believe the cause is that the international economy is controlled by so few people, and, furthermore, that the people who are actually the primary producers of food and labor-intensive products are in the poorer communities of the World. Take Sri Lanka, for example. Maybe a handful of people in Sri Lanka, a really insignificant minority, are benefiting from the economic develop- ment or the increase in trade with the West that has taken place in the past few years, while the poor people are becoming poorer, and the numbers of the poor are increasing.

This is a phenomenon in all the developing countries. In my country, wherever food is processed, we pay more for the processing than for the food, with the added chemicals and all. CI: In my country we have to pay more for the food not to be processed or sprayed with chemicals. ATA: If there were a direct exchange between people, all these expenses would be cut down.

The whole thing is a pyramid and everything is done to satisfy the upper level. International trade should be restricted because the injustice this inter- national economic order produces cannot satisfy basic needs of clothing A. T. Ariyaratne and shelter but satisfies the greed of rich people in rich countries. And we, in the poor countries, get cash in return, and this cash is once again spent to buy media-created wants, desires created entirely by the advertising media. It’s a vicious cycle.

CI: What’s the answer to this problem?

Printed in the United States of America. Cover and interior design by Gopa & Ted 2, Inc. Photo credits: A. T. Ariyaratne © Catherine Ingram; Mubarak Awad courtesy of Mubarak Awad; Joan Baez courtesy of Diamond & Rust Productions; Cesar Chavez © Victor Aleman, UFW; Dalai Lama photo by Clive Arrowsmith, courtesy Office of Tibet, London; Ram Dass © Peter Simon; Joanna Macy courtesy of Joanna Macy; Diane Nash cour- tesy of Diane Nash; Thich Nhat Hanh © Jim Forest; Gary Snyder cour- tesy of North Point Press; David Steindl-Rast courtesy of David Steindl-Rast; Desmond Tutu courtesy of William B.

Eerdmans Publish- ing Company; Catherine Ingram © Brad Corbelli. ISBN 1-888375-35-3 The Library of Congress has cataloged the original edition as follows: Ingram, Catherine. 1952- In the footsteps of Gandhi: conversations with spiritual social activists by Catherine Ingram. p. cm. “An Institute of Noetic Sciences book.” Includes bibliographical references ISBN 0-938077-24.-4 Social reformers—Interviews. 2. Social Action. 3. Church and so- cial problems. 4. Nonviolence. I. Title. HNI8.154 1990 303.6—dc20 89-22855 CIP 12345 / 07 06 O§ 04 03 Contents Acknowledgments 7 Foreword: My Grandfather’s Footsteps 9 Arun Gandhi Introduction: Our Time to Shine 13 Catherine Ingram His Holiness The Dalai Lama _ 17 Mubarak Awad 37 Joan Baez 59 Thich Nhat Hanh 77 Cesar Chavez 97 A.T.Ariyaratne 117 Joanna Macy 133 Ram Dass 157 Diane Nash 185 Gary Snyder 205 Brother David Steindl-Rast 225 Archbishop Desmond Tutu 245 Afterword: The Challenge of Nonviolence 255 Michael Nagler Endnotes 259 ~Le 4 – rr ~ 14) : = a —~ = » = = , [email protected])- eo q ao a ay *.

Say ‘ “SS 4 salle ing – f , 1 “— oe Aaret Me: ellie!

This is a short excerpt from the opening of “” by Unknown, quoted for review and introduction purposes. All rights belong to the copyright holders.

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